to do and needs to do and authorize an increase in the debt ceiling to pay our debts, pay our bills and that's the right way to do it, and, you know, i think that's what will eventually happen, but i don't think that going off in the other direction would be all that helpful. >> hello, chairman, i'm a second year -- [inaudible] >> second question, does the debt ceiling have a practical purpose and could it be eliminated without much consequence. >> does what have? >> the debt ceiling. >> oh, no, it doesn't really have -- symbolic value, i guess, but what -- no other country, i believe, maybe one or two other countries, but i think essentially no other countries in the world have this particular institution, just so everybody understands what it is. the congress appropriates a hundred dollars, tells the government to spend a hundred dollars on whatever, and then it raises $80 in revenue through its tax code. now the math here says, you know, go to the go borrow $20; right? no, congress has a third rule saying 100 minus 80 equals 20. if the congress is approving spending and approving